I'm so glad that you joined me today on Let's Get Digital.
It's going to be a great show because I have one of my dear friends with me, Scott Willis,
who is the CEO of DartPoints.
Scott, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Yeah, Kerry, I appreciate it.
I always enjoy the opportunity to be able to do this.
So thank you for having me.
Absolutely.
I know we were talking recently at one of the events and I was hearing all of the updates
of the exciting news, things going on with Dark Points and I said, okay, we've got to get
you back on the show because you were on back in 2022.
So Scott, for the people that don't know Dark Points or don't know who you are, let's
start with you because you have a very interesting story and maybe you can share some of
the moments that really
steered you to where you are today in the data center world.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm happy to talk about that.
uh You know, I've always sought out even coming out of college, right, and had an interest
in uh technology.
uh Listen, a lot of things uh evolve across your career.
I'm very blessed.
I've had a strong career, and I'm very excited about where I am today in the data center
space.
But I think maybe a couple of things.
ah You know, I always have looked
for uh emerging opportunities.
And I think as I've done that in my career, there's been really three that I'm proud of,
that I've sought out.
uh And then really the second component of that is I've always kind of sought out
opportunities that roles and responsibilities that maybe not everybody wanted or everybody
desired, maybe the harder types of jobs.
And I think that served me well and it's allowed, it's really allowed a foundation
professionally.
that I draw upon that I think I take advantage of every day.
But it's really three points.
mean, back in the early days, I'm gonna date myself a little bit, uh back in what was long
distance, right?
In those days, was kind of AT &T or Bell.
Mall Bell is what my grandparents used to refer to that as.
And that was back in kind of the 80s and late 80s, early 90s where that emerged.
And you had a uh lot of great companies beyond 80s.
AT &T in terms of WorldCom, MCI, Sprint, which part of my career was at.
uh And I'm proud of that time.
And here's why, is because if you look at the foundation across wireless uh digital
infrastructure, towers, fiber, and data centers, uh there are a lot of executives that
emerged out of that time that long distance created in terms of building competitive
skills, knowing how to build
knowing how to really evolve in a challenging market and how to really build cultures in
terms of what you do.
And that's something that I'm proud of there.
Secondly, if you flip fast forward to the end of the 90s, the second kind of phase that I
think I'm blessed with was wireless, right?
uh And that was, if you kind of think about the impact that's had on society, and if you
think about the impact that technology has had uh not only domestically, but globally, uh
That was another one that I kind of sought out and I loved, spent a couple of decades
there uh and I had a great run there, uh learned a ton, worked with a lot of great people.
And then when I stepped out of that in uh 18, 19, in terms of when I came out of that
period, in terms of where I was, I kind of said, what do I want to do next?
And I sought out, right, in terms of the data center sector and what was an emerging
market?
What uh was an industry that was going to take me well into my
into probably the end of my working careers, uh at least in day-to-day operations.
And that's what drove me into the data center space.
So lot of luck, a lot of mentorship with a lot of people have helped me along the way.
But I also like to think that I played a role in terms of a little bit of planning, a
little bit of seeking in terms of what are those industries that are really going to
drive, involve and have a meaningful impact.
And I think I've been able to participate in three of them and I'm very fortunate for
that.
Yes you are.
Tell me about Dark Points.
Right.
Love to talk about DartPoint.
So we are an owner operator of uh data centers.
uh We are uh focused on the enterprise, large enterprise where we focus.
We're a full scope provider, meaning we offer space and power, co-location.
We offer the full stack of cloud, hybrid cloud, managed services across our portfolio.
uh Where maybe it's a little bit different, right?
We tend to focus on non-tier one markets, right?
to lean on the word edge a lot.
I think I've said that to you a couple of times as we've been in these conversations, but
it's non tier one markets in terms of how we see the industry evolving.
uh are, uh you know, we're 11 data centers and 10 markets today, largely at least where we
sit today in the Midwest, Southeast and South Central.
So that's kind of a uh a quick hit on, on who we are, what we do in the customer segment
that we target.
So I was reading, and again, I don't know if this is true, but that there are
approximately 5,500 data centers in the US today.
uh What sets Dart points aside or makes Dart points different?
Yeah, mean, listen, you are right.
I don't know if it's exactly 5,500, but it's a lot.
mean, for a person that doesn't understand the sector that we're in, a lot of people just
think a data center is a data center.
And that couldn't be further from the truth, right?
And it's all about focus.
It's where do you sit uh in the customer segment that you're trying to build your business
around.
uh And those uh are the things that really separate you in terms of what you're doing.
So whether you're at the hyper end of the market,
whether you're targeting single tenant data centers, whether you're a wholesaler, whether
you're an enterprise that has your own data centers, right?
There are lots of different segments of data centers, but clearly we're focused on
multi-tenant larger enterprise and bringing ecosystems with a uh solution set across our
portfolio that hopefully delivers a meaningful impact to the IT needs that an enterprise
has.
in the market today.
That's what we're all about.
We want to enable a very interconnected, very robust, and very reliable ecosystems in the
markets that we serve.
And we want to draw enterprise customers into leverage what we bring into the market uh as
they're looking to grow their business, scale their business, take care of their
customers, uh whatever their need is from an IT perspective, we want to be a partner to be
able to do that.
So that's what differentiates us.
uh We're committed to what we do.
We take care of our customers.
We deliver what we believe uh is a really high touch uh type of environment.
And we think our customers recognize and reward us for that type of winning strategy.
So that's a little bit where we are.
I talked earlier about where do we position from where our assets are placed.
And then those are the types of services and solutions that we try to bring into the
market.
So Scott when we talked you have been repositioning and I transitioning dart points How
have you done that like what's going on?
What's new update us?
So we have a lot's happened since you and I have talked on this in 22.
But the thing that we're most excited about is the process that we've just completed.
It came out in the public domain a few weeks back.
But obviously we've recapitalized the company.
We've brought on some new investors or investors.
We actually have a couple of new investors that we've brought into the business.
We're excited about that.
We hit a point in our journey.
um where we just had achieved what I think we could do and we needed that new capital
infusion to be able to continue to grow, to be able to continue to realize the vision that
we have for Dart Points and to really be able to advance the platform to take advantage
of, quite frankly, what are the tailwinds largely driven around AI and denser types of
workloads to continue the journey and the success that we're on.
And that's what this transition is all about.
I couldn't be more excited
about the new partnerships that we have with Nova infrastructure as our primary equity
partner and then uh OIC largely on the debt side.
uh We've transitioned the business in that journey.
So really in a couple of ways.
uh One is uh previously we were a hybrid, both owned versus leased assets, uh and we've
transitioned that to be much heavier uh owned assets.
ah
point where we're going forward, that is going to be a strategic part of how we build,
scale and grow dark points going forward.
So that was important.
A lot of work and a lot of energy went into converting some of our leased assets into
owned, but that's an important transition that we made in this process.
And then secondarily, uh as we were uh in the recapitalization process, a lot happened
during that period in the industry.
mean, the industry is moving.
particularly on the tailwinds of AI, just at lightning speed.
And uh what we've recognized and what we're seeing in the market is a real need is, uh and
this is really backed up by a pretty strong pipeline of opportunities, is a lot of the
players in the data center space have evolved up market, right, and are really targeting
much more towards hyper kind of workloads.
And what we realized in that process were many of the
players are trying to move up and take advantage of the needs of that segment of the
market is uh larger enterprise, right?
Still has needs.
And what we realized is there was a real vacuum in the market and kind of that 10 to 40,
maybe 50 megawatt kind of range.
uh And so uh as we went through this capitalization recapitalization process, as we were
repositioning the business to take advantage of that opportunity, that's the transition
that has evolved and that's where we are.
And that's really what we are crystal clear on in terms of what we're focused on ah as we
look to build this business is really putting capital work in two ways.
One is to expand our existing sites ah in the existing platform we have in our markets.
We've got four of those projects that are currently underway that we're gonna move into
that power segment in that 10 to 40 megawatts that I was describing.
We are so excited about that in terms of how that's gonna be a game changer
for for dark points and the vision that we have for the company.
And then secondarily, ah we've been fairly acquisitive in how we've built dark points, but
we've really bought it or built it around buying businesses.
Right.
And we've done that through real what is effectively for transactions.
I don't think &A is going to is going to look like historically what it has for dark
points going forward.
I think &A is going to be a little bit more site specific.
And it's really about identifying those
opportunities that out there that can deliver quickly right into that 10 to 40 megawatt
range that we're really looking to build this platform around.
So that's really what the strategy is.
Time to market is our number one priority, right?
We want to deploy and expand in our existing portfolio as fast as we can, and we're
working very hard every day to do that.
And then we want to leverage M &A to be able to bring the kind of asset that'll complement
the strategy and the vision that I've described in that power segment space that we're
going after and do that in a way where we can deliver that quickly.
So lots of transition, uh lots of activity in terms of recapitalizing the company.
I'm excited about our new partners uh in terms of what we're trying to achieve.
And we are laser focused as a team in achieving what I just described.
Congratulations, Scott.
I know that you're going to make it a reality.
It's a lot of work, but we're excited about the opportunity.
I'm sure it is.
What steps are you taking to, I guess, future-proof your data centers?
Yeah, this is hard.
This is...
uh
That is a, that's a subject that's kind of funny because this morning I was working, I've
got a leadership team coming up in the next week and I was working on the agenda and it's
a subject that is on every leadership meeting that we have.
It's in two ways.
One is it's about understanding your existing platform, your existing customer base and
remaining relevant, right?
How do you take an existing platform that maybe is designed
for uh a different time and a different state and evolving that so that you're relevant
over the next three to five years.
Right.
uh And then so that's one that and that's that's hard.
Right.
Because you can't disrupt your customers.
Right.
You've got to understand how do you evolve your existing platform to make sure that you're
relevant for your customers and you're meeting your meeting future workloads.
And then two is right.
It's through expansions.
Right.
In terms of its uh designing and its uh config
the future state environment that we're trying to transition this business towards and
building and expanding the platform to be able to meet those future state needs, right?
Whether it's power, whether it's cooling, whether it's space, right?
How do you design, deploy and expand your platform so that you remain relevant over the
next three to five to seven years?
And in an environment where technology is evolving as rapidly
as it is in the data center sector, particularly on the tailwinds of AI, that is no small
challenge.
is, you know, Brad, my CTO, we're blessed he's one of the best in the industry, but he is
cycling through constantly trying to make sure that he understands how he maintains our
relevance going forward.
So it's a challenge, right?
But it's not, this isn't a dark points only challenge.
It's any data center operator in our sector is facing the same challenge that I just
described.
You know, I think any business right now in the world is facing this challenge with AI,
right?
no question.
That's exactly right.
For sure, for sure.
So can you explain the difference between the multi-tenant and single-tenant data centers
quickly, but then also the challenges, the unique challenges that you face as a
multi-tenant?
Yeah, I mean, listen, it's um this is this is going back to my segmentation.
uh Common earlier, there is no easy segment in our in our business.
I want to be clear with that upfront.
Right.
But they're different.
Right.
If you're if you're a single tenant provider, whether you are providing to the hypers as a
single tenant or you're providing to a wholesale type of customer or even just a large
enterprise that you're providing services for.
uh
That's a different environment to work with it, right?
uh Your expectations around what do you need to build?
What are the customer's needs?
What are their exact requirements?
Right?
All of those things you can design, configure, and construct for as you're doing that.
uh Again, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's a different challenge.
In our environment, where it's multi-tenant, uh you've got to design for the widest
catchers minute, right?
We're trying to cast the widest net
to the market that allows us the greatest opportunity at commercial success.
So understanding the broader customer needs, right?
Understanding how do I design and configure a next generation data center that will meet
the multiple demands and multiple needs of multiple customers, right?
It's just a different profile and it's a different challenge uh as a data center operator
that you face within that environment.
uh
You know, we've been around for, since about 2014.
We've been a multi-tenant operator since day one.
We think we're good at it, right?
Feedback we get from our customers tells us we're pretty good at it.
And so it comes with a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, whether it's just pure basic
space and power, or you're offering a more complex cloud, private cloud, multi-tenant
cloud, hybrid cloud, right, environment wrapped around with
of managed services, right?
The complexity, all of those years of experiences are playing into how do we continue,
whether it's an expansion or whether it's an &A opportunity, build and configure what is a
future proof, right?
uh A type of data center that continues to be relevant and meets the needs of the
enterprise customers.
So uh the complexities are different, right?
Because you are dealing with multiple customers, multiple customer requirements, and you
need
to need to be you need be able to manage that end to end.
You need to be able to deliver that across your teams, right, with the right processes,
right tools, the right procedures.
And then you've got to do it in a way where you're economically uh being very efficient
and getting an acceptable level of return for your investors.
Right.
And so it just adds a different challenge and a different element.
Not one's not any harder or less harder than the other one.
But the challenges are certainly very different.
So those are some of the high level differences between
maybe some of the more defined requirements of a single tenant versus the challenges that
you deal with in trying to solve for a much broader set of customers.
What innovations in cooling do you believe will become standard in the next five to 10
years?
Also, what cooling options specifically are you using now?
Yeah, so we're that is that is probably one of the primary objectives.
I mentioned Brad earlier, my CTO, that we are focused on.
In fact, we've got actively we've got a number of different pilots that are underway in a
test lab environment in our data centers using a number of different cooling technologies,
particularly liquid.
Right.
We're really trying to understand what is the best configuration.
It goes back to what I said.
earlier, right?
If you've got a single tenant, uh they help you define, right?
And that's what you deploy.
In my environment, right, where I'm trying to, it's back to that casting a wide net, that
wider catcher's net, where we're trying to solve for multiple types of workloads, it is
more challenging, right?
So uh we're trying to understand that, particularly in these expansion sites, we're trying
to understand, but it is going to be a combination of dense air-cooled environments.
It's going to be a multiple combinations of various liquid options.
We are piloting that as we speak.
We are leveraging oh expertise and consultants that are available in the market that have
a lot of experience oh and bring a lot of data.
We're really, is a significant uh component of what my current mind share is going
towards.
uh Brad, our CTO's current mind share is going towards and Dave who
who obviously at the end of day, he runs operations.
He's got to run all of this, right?
He's got to make it all happen for our customers.
So we're in the mix of trying to solve for that.
But what we do know is we will have to bring multiple cooling solutions into our
environment to meet the needs and the demands of the customers that not only we're
expecting to track near term, but also maintain relevance two years, three years, four
years down the road as we're deploying capital into like
I said, either these these new expansion facilities or potentially through &A.
So that's a real challenge.
is a that is a difficult uh part of the industry today because there are lots of different
cooling solutions, lots of different powering solutions, right?
That you've got to you've got to synthesize through and make the best decision for your
business in where you sit in the in the hierarchy of the market segment you're trying to
serve as a data center operator.
So
When you say, what is going to be the go-to power five to seven years?
I don't have an answer for that.
We're still trying to figure out what are the best solutions that we know will meet the
needs of not only our customers today, but hopefully in a few years to come as we try to
future-proof the investments that we're making.
it's exciting on some fronts.
It's fun to work through, but you've got to make the right decisions.
You've got to make the right choices.
And that's what the fun of the challenge is.
Yes, I agree.
Let's talk about talent and workforce.
You know, we have been discussing how fast the data center space is exploding, right?
There's AI driving it.
Every single conference that I go to, data center conference, it's all about the growth.
And there's got to be a talent shortage at this point.
Are you feeling that in your business?
Yeah, no, no question.
I think anybody that's in the data center sector, um there are certain segments, right?
You and I have had lot of conversations about this, right?
This is core to what your business that you've built is all about.
So you and I have talked a lot about this.
uh Culture is there is no more important factor than culture, right?
And it's getting the right team members, the right skill set.
Then you got to put the passion and you got to put the ownership.
and you got to put the willingness to go that extra mile and lay the vision out for your
team.
All of that comes together.
So there is no question that talent is at the forefront of everything we're facing.
We're doing that today.
We've been uh in a significant um hiring environment.
um We're probably, if there's an area, you know, this kind of goes back to some
conversations you and I have had back, because we knew each other back in my wireless
days.
you know, back when I'll speak domestically, Kind of when, you know, Sprint and TMO and
Verizon and AT &T were all deploying at the same time, right?
We had a real labor shortage back in those days.
We're kind of in that euphoria in the data center uh space just because uh there's so many
expansion projects and new builds going on in our industry.
So whether it's, you know, engineering, construction, project management,
all the skills that you need to be able to either expand a data center within an existing
campus environment, which is part of what I'm talking about, or you're building a new one.
uh That's a real need in our industry today.
It's finding the talent and the skill set and then throwing the challenge of what we
talked about earlier about future proofing and understanding the tailwinds of AI and
cooling and power and making sure that what you're deploying and capital that you're
putting to work remains relevant beyond the next two
or three years, finding the skill set to help you navigate that and work through that is
difficult.
And again, as I talked about kind of that future proofing of your platform today that all
leaders that are in our sector are challenged with, this is another one, right?
Because oh it's real, right?
We're in a stage of great opportunity in front of us, right?
But to realize that opportunity, you've got to invest and you got to create the platform
and enable the platform
and be able to deliver the ecosystems that you can take advantage of that opportunity.
so talent is clearly uh something that all of us collectively are struggling with.
Because again, as you and I have had many conversations, without the right talent, right,
you're never going to achieve or realize the vision that you have for your business.
And that is no different for DartPoints.
That is important.
And we're constantly looking uh to not only take care of the
the critical team that we have in place today, but how do we add to that and enhance that
and build upon that to make sure that we're able to achieve the vision that I've been
talking for the last few minutes around our points.
Do you have, let's say, one strategy that's been working for you to attract and retain
talent?
Let's say attract, right, because they're hard to find.
Anything that's worked for you?
I think there's a number of things that...
that you've got to deploy inside your business.
It's creating the right culture.
ah It's creating the right vision that people can align with.
It's creating an environment that people want to come into.
And they want to work for and participate in that environment.
Your biggest advocates are your employees.
If they're out there talking about DartPoints, if they're talking about this is a great
place, that draws in.
All of those components have to have to come together in terms of ultimately trying to
create an environment where you can attract the right talent.
um You know, it's interesting.
I maybe won initiative and um I'm proud of this to the extent that I'm seeing results, but
we're early on.
uh launched, you know, the challenge when you're with a business the size of Dart Points,
we're kind of a medium sized business is, you know, because I've had success in these
kinds of businesses.
And I've worked for some large global corporations as well, right?
And um it's not only the right talent, but it's having uh the layers of that talent to be
able to grow and scale that business.
And that's a challenge for a business the size of Dart Points.
And so I launched what I called um our ELT.
So it's our Extended Leadership Team.
What I really began to realize is too much responsibility was relying on
on my direct reports, the leadership, the senior leadership team of dark points to get
things done.
Right.
And I realized that if we don't enable that next layer of leadership, right.
So that VP and that, that director, senior director, because that's really where work
happens.
That's where decisions happens.
That's where progress is made and that's where execution occurs.
And so, you know, we've, we've implemented that uh in a pretty significant way and where
it's, it's formal.
have formal meetings.
not only with that team, that team meets as a group and brings oh ideas and concepts and
things we need to do to drive and improve dark points up into the leadership team.
And I couldn't be more proud of, it's early, it's only been about eight months, but I
couldn't be more proud of how that's evolving.
And I'm seeing it.
This team has embraced that.
They're owning their objective.
They're taking responsibility.
They're embracing the
the ability to make decisions and own those decisions and I'm seeing the results of it.
always looking for those kinds of opportunities to enable an organization uh I think is
important not only for someone that sits in my role but as an executive leadership team as
you're looking to grow and evolve and scale an organization, particularly in a business
like ours, meaning the data center sector in general broadly that is moving so rapidly on
the tailwinds of technology.
technology, right?
It's just, it's, I, thought I, in previous parts of my career, things move fast.
Nothing is moving as fast as, as what AI uh is, is, is evolving in this business today.
And you've got to be able to keep up with that.
And that doesn't happen without, without having the right talent in the organization that
feels empowered, feels enabled and has, and has ownership in the outcome.
And that's what we're trying to achieve is, as we, as we try to ultimately achieve the
vision that I
talked about previously.
Scott, what is the big dream that's driving you forward right now?
mean, I, you know, I listen, I've, uh, you know, I've had lots of dreams, lots of goals
and a lot of those that I've achieved, but, it's, it's, it's a lot of what I've described.
I, um I am enjoying so much, what, what I'm doing with dark points.
I love this data center space.
Doesn't mean I didn't like wireless that I didn't enjoy the long distance, but I really am
enjoying, um, listen, our world is changing rapidly.
I mean, technology, AI, um, the ecosystems that.
we sit, how we're going to enable all that is going to have such a dramatic impact on
society and our everyday lives, right?
And in some ways, not even all of us realize or can envision what that's going to mean.
Even, you know, six months, a year, 18 months, two years down the road.
I love being a part of that.
And my goal is to, I want to enable Dark Points to be a meaningful
a meaningful provider and enabler of those ecosystems, right?
And the vision that I've laid out, I'm excited about.
And if we can execute on that and enable that, that's going to position Dart Points as a
company.
mine's, you know, oh my goal, mine's personally in terms of where I am in my age and my
career uh is to build, you know, build this business in a sustainable way, right?
I want the employees to, I want to have a culture that they love what we're doing, right?
They're buying into what we're doing.
oh
and they feel like they're contributing to what we're trying to do.
So those are a lot of my big goals and what I'm trying to do just kind of given where I am
in my career is enabling dart points and uh having the team that can kind of help me and
the leadership team achieve what I've described.
What is your website?
How can we learn more about Dart Points?
Yeah, the website www.dartpoints.com.
So uh any and all information about who we are, what we do, what our strategy is, site
level information in terms of power space, uh know, anything associated around, you know,
white papers, thought leadership, anything you want to know in terms of dart points and
what we're trying to do, you'll find that on the website.
So please, please hit it and we're happy to provide any follow up or any questions that
someone might have if they reach into us.
And job openings too.
You have a career page there, right?
Absolutely.
We have those and those are critical.
So if you're interested, we'd love to talk to you.
Scott, just want to say just not only thank you for coming on the show today, but thank
you for your mentorship over the years.
To me, you have been such an inspiration from the moment I met you.
Every time we talk, you give me business ideas, uh guidance, hope, excitement.
I just want to thank you for that because it means a lot to me.
And again, like I said, I have no doubt that you
are going to accomplish everything that you set out to accomplish with Dark Points and
more.
So thank you.
Thank you and I appreciate you having me on.
I always enjoy the opportunity to come in and visit with you.
You take care, I'll see you soon.
Thanks, Gary.