Carrie Charles (00:01.102)
Thank you for joining me today on Let's Get Digital. I'm glad you're here. We got a great show for you, another great show. I have with me Alessandro Lombardi. He is the founder and chairman of Aaliyah Data Centers. Now, let me tell you just a little bit about Aaliyah Data Centers. It operates a nationwide network of nine interconnected data center campuses. And guess, this is amazing, and you're gonna hear all about this. 100 % powered.
by renewable energy. So Alessandro, thank you for joining me. I cannot wait for this conversation.
Alessandro Lombardi (00:38.805)
Keri, I'm so happy, so excited to be here with you and let's make a great podcast for all of your viewers.
Carrie Charles (00:45.322)
Let's do it, let's do it. So first, tell us about Alea data centers and its role in Brazil's digital infrastructure ecosystem.
Alessandro Lombardi (00:57.237)
So you did a great introduction. Brazil as a country is one of the only countries in the G20, so among big countries, can count on an energy matrix that is 90 % plus green, not coming from fossil fuels. It is hydro, it is solar, it is wind. Mainly hydro. Why I'm saying mainly hydro? Because it's mainly 724.
So we don't have the issues of some of the newest green energy matters that were built, for example, in California, where you have a lot of green power during the day, but less during the night. Here in Brazil, you have a lot of power, 724, which is green. And also the fact that it was built, this infrastructure, over 20 years of government subsidies, there are...
about 30 gigawatts of energy available right now, already in place. So it's one of the very few places in the world where you can construct green AI. So where do we stand on this? We are occupying the place, we are moving ahead and saying to the US companies that we have green electron available, we have capacity to build.
And basically, Brazil in the global infrastructure landscape is one of the solutions if we really want to build green AI data centers.
Carrie Charles (02:32.519)
So Alea recently announced Rio AI City and I read that it's a multi-billion dollar initiative in partnership with Rio City government. So what is the vision behind this and why now?
Alessandro Lombardi (02:49.919)
So basically the vision behind that is and I think during our conversation, Kerry, I'd like to express because it's a big project for us. goes, the first phase, goes to 1.5 gigawatt of power. So for us it's a big project, it's quantum leap. And therefore there are many aspects that I'd like to talk about. Basically Rio de Janeiro used to be the capital city of Brazil.
It's called the Wonderful City. It's a really nice city. I'm sure you've seen it. Christ the Redeemer, Ipanema, Copacabana Beach is famous for its beauty. And also it has 7.5 million people. And that's huge. That's two times Switzerland, like the city of Rio. So it's big, it's huge. And it has a new story as opposed to other Latin American big cities of delivering large infrastructure projects.
So this city in 2016 hosted the Olympics. And the Olympic Games were hosted and it was a success. understand everybody remembers the golf course or the bicycle race or the many beautiful images that are in people's minds about the Olympics. And what Olympics do, they build infrastructure. So for the Olympics.
Basically what was done was to replicate the submarine cable capacity that San Paolo has. San Paolo is even bigger than Rio de Janeiro, but the submarine cable, was branches brought to Rio de Janeiro. So all the big techs, have low latency cables that from Rio goes to Fortaleza and then to Miami, to Fort Lauderdale. So it's very highly connected because of that project.
And also the city of Rio, the mayor was the same, the mayor that is now hosting the city, it was the mayor back then, they brought energy to the site. Basically, are 500 megs needed to host an Olympic games, 500 megs. And they brought there, they used for two weeks, and people forgot about it. And we have one site running there.
Alessandro Lombardi (05:11.485)
one of our sites, one of ELEA's sites, Rio General One, is in the middle of the Olympic Park. And therefore, what we have done is as simple as that. We have seen this, but we have infrastructure, we have energy, we have, of course, electricity, we have land. So why don't we go big? And so we started showing, showcasing the project to the West Coast. And people liked the idea, especially because of the existence of
the submarine cables. the US big techs, they already have cables from Rio to Florida. So it's easier than others. You know, there are big projects in Norway that, yes, you have green energy, but you don't have a city like Rio with seven million people, and especially you don't have connectivity. It's not impossible to do, but you need years of work.
You need a ship, you need to lay down the cable. It's an important overseas territory, so you need licenses. It's a long project. And all is done here. So basically that was the idea. And then when we asked to the Rio de Janeiro branch of Electrobras, Electrobras is the larger grid.
the operator in Brazil, they operate 60 % of the Brazilian grid and they have more than these 500 ready for you because it used to be the capital city so there is a large infrastructure that 500 kilowatt high-tension coming to the city. the place is well suited to go big and so we did it. That was a project that started in 2023 so it's about three years before becoming public.
Carrie Charles (07:04.597)
So what's the rollout plan for this big project? It's Rio AI City, right? That's the name of it?
Alessandro Lombardi (07:13.279)
Rio and I city, yes. And the idea is we are already building Rio de Janeiro 2, which is going to be a co-location site for ATMag, so normal kind of development. But we have both and we control a big portion of land. It's 1.2 million square meter. So it's a very large portion of land with access to the 500 kilowatt high tension grid.
And on this land we are preparing for a large BTS exactly the way that you are seeing in Nevada, you are seeing in Texas, you are seeing in other US companies. Basically, we are doing exactly like it is being done in the US, literally exactly in the same way, provided that it is Brazil. So there are factors that are in our favor, basically energy cost.
Here, energy is less expensive than in the US. And of course, it's a foreign country, so there are adjustments that need to be made. One of our clients, I cannot name who, they are calling us, we are the Brazilian Stargate. The idea is to do something similar to that. Because you want to look at the big, project and do something similar.
Carrie Charles (08:31.588)
I love it.
Carrie Charles (08:37.879)
So Brazil's been called a tropical model for AI infrastructure. What does that mean?
Alessandro Lombardi (08:45.141)
It's twofold. One is a data center which is different because you really have in Latin America to reduce the gap. This is a developing country. It is now the sixth largest economy in the world, so it's not a poor country, but it's developing. It has high capacity to grow. So it is different than in the U.S. and therefore it is not a data center which is in the middle of nowhere.
It is not literally in the desert. It is integrated within the city. So people think that by bringing an infrastructure of this size, portion of it can be used to develop the local ecosystem of startup, of academic, so helping to foster the environment of university, of STEM.
of the ability of the city to produce engineers and also, of course, some of these big techs to hire people here locally. And, you know, I love Washington State. I love it. But the fact that the coding is not anymore the core of their work because of AI, we are seeing people are starting to look at places where they would like to live.
and this is a beautiful place to stay, like the digital nomads kind of. So I'm seeing interest from the US of, ah, let's do it, yes, I wanna come. It seems like a joke, but it is not, because it's important. Nowhere there is more than it was. So this is a project that tends to be, this tends to be an attraction. So first, it is combined within the city.
Carrie Charles (10:26.189)
You
Alessandro Lombardi (10:41.693)
And therefore, because of that, is conceptually designed to be green and to be seen. So it's not ugly. It's not Minecraft. There is some architecture work behind it. I'm sure you have seen the photos. It's really beautiful. It's green. It's planted. It's within the trees. It's between the forest. It wants to give the message that digital infrastructure is not bad. It doesn't need to be hidden.
Some data centers, you don't want people to see it. You just want them to see the product. So this is different. It's integrated within the city. So that's why it's tropical. It's different. It's more humanized, I would say.
Carrie Charles (11:26.071)
Humanized, yes, yes, I agree. You said that Brazil gets 90 % of its electricity from renewables. So how is that powering a new generation of digital infrastructure and what are the cost advantages to that?
Alessandro Lombardi (11:45.333)
Right now, and I understand this is a window, it will not forever be like that. Brazilians have built excess energy capacity. They were thinking that the demand of energy would grow more than what they have built. So right now, and that's going to be true for the next two or three years, there is excess capacity. Excess capacity means lower prices.
It's a market demand and offer, very simple market economic rule. So right now you're seeing prices below $60 per megawatt, which is not expensive for green energy. And that's 724 energy. So right now you don't see costs flying high. Now I understand that this is a window. This will not be forever because
Once we sell our city project, there are other beautiful projects in the northeast, in the south of Brazil. Everybody's going to sell their project in Brazil because there's plenty of green energy. I don't think it's going to be forever. And then price is going to be back up. So right now, in the next three years, you have a window to build green energy cheap. That's not going to be forever.
Carrie Charles (13:06.291)
So, got it, got it. What are the challenges with building, maintaining data centers with 100 % renewable energy? What challenges do you face?
Alessandro Lombardi (13:23.816)
I have big friends that work at Caterpillar or Rolls Royce, but the only thing that I really would like to continue to focus on is generators. Because if you look at 1.5 gigawatt of generators and the diesel tanks you have to put and the logistics of trucks, and then you tell people that yes, we are green, but for 30 hours a year.
So I understand the real challenge for us is to understand how we grow, even when the electricity grid goes down, 100 % green. Because I really believe that the century, in this century, they need to become, all of them, not only in Brazil, but all of them, need to become green powered. Whether it's nuclear, it's hydro, it's whatever, but we need to do this infrastructure green.
Otherwise it's going to be a disaster for all of us. That's not politics. It's clear that we need to stop the emissions. And it's not, yeah, we need AI, of course we do, but we also need to have green AI. That's very important.
Carrie Charles (14:39.885)
Couldn't agree with you more. How did you build sustainability into the foundation rather than layering it on layer, excuse me, later? So many projects tend to do that. So you built it actually into the foundation.
Alessandro Lombardi (14:55.605)
Can you repeat please? wasn't able to hear.
Carrie Charles (14:58.153)
yes, how did you build sustainability into the foundation rather than, let's say, layering it on later as other projects do?
Alessandro Lombardi (15:09.205)
That was easier for me because I am a founder and that was really, it's one of the mission statements, green infrastructure, green and digital infrastructure. That was 2017, 2018. So we never, we we never, we bought a data center was using water and we issue a bond to change and replace all the vaporizer that were there.
And so Elea Data Center, we were born green. So all the employees, all the clients, like everybody from day one was built to be green. We never purchased one electron that was not green. So it is a foundational. It is like a kind of religion. I am, sometimes I get scared because some of the clients, they don't like this religion at all.
Carrie Charles (16:05.355)
Yeah.
Alessandro Lombardi (16:07.061)
Alessandro in five years, ten years, but now we have to do it right. Okay, but not in Brazil because it's stupid to do it in Brazil because you have the option to buy it.
Alessandro Lombardi (16:19.957)
from other sources but there is so much green energy available so we were born green.
Carrie Charles (16:27.389)
So one standout element is your use of zero water cooling systems. How do they work and why is this important for future AI workloads?
Alessandro Lombardi (16:40.245)
It's simple, we are using air-cooled technology and I know that evaporizers are more efficient in terms of energy usage. Therefore, it's a sad equation, but I understand that in Europe, for example, they have to use vaporizers because they are burning coal to electrify the data centers.
So any energy efficient you can get, you have to use it because it's emissions. So it's the trade-off. Okay, so let's use some water, but in exchange we will not produce emissions. I understand that. It's a sad equation, but it's done because of that. Now, in an environment where you 100 % green energy,
you have to consume a little bit more of energy and use air systems that do not use water at all or almost at all. It's like the air conditioning of your car. Yes, you use some liquid, but it's a closet secret. You just reuse so you basically don't use water. So Brazil, Norway, Quebec.
one of the few places where it doesn't make sense to use vaporizers. It does not make sense. Now, it... The PUE is slightly worse. Slightly. It's not huge. But since it is water that we use to produce energy, it doesn't hurt the environment. So that's why Brazil uses... That's not a layer only. Brazilians don't use it. So, that, I think, the big Brazilians, they don't use it.
Carrie Charles (18:37.439)
lessons can the U. anymore got it. Important point. What lessons can the US and other countries take from Alea's approach to energy, environment, and infrastructure?
Alessandro Lombardi (18:38.355)
anymore.
anymore.
Alessandro Lombardi (18:58.269)
I'm sorry, Kerry, I didn't get your question. Sorry about that.
Carrie Charles (19:01.131)
Yes, I'll start over and then cut this. We're going to edit this part and now I'm going to ask the question again. So what lessons can the US and other countries take from Alea's approach to energy, environment and infrastructure?
Alessandro Lombardi (19:21.051)
I think that the humanized data center, the fact that we are building large infrastructure projects together with the city, means that you really can anticipate the community issue. And I understand, since I'm always in the US, that our peers in the US, they have community issues. So they need to...
talk to the community and it may become a complex conversation. And that needs to be done in advance and to help the community understand that a centric can be done without harming the community. On the contrary, it can provide the community tools and development avenues that they don't have.
And therefore I think that's a good point. Of course it's easier to do that in a development county because people have everything in Nevada. They have everything. So they don't want anything more, they don't want to lose it. So no, data centers. So it's easier because you see technologies coming from the future, so it's easier. However, it's a way that I think that people need to start thinking.
because the data center needs to be seen as positive because everybody wants AI in our lives, everybody decides about that and then they see it in your backyard and say, no, not in my backyard. And our project as of today, it is well perceived by the community.
Carrie Charles (21:03.565)
So how did you create that perception in the community? You said one way was the aesthetics of the data center. So what are some other ways that you created that perception, that positive perception that other, let's say, countries could learn from?
Alessandro Lombardi (21:20.229)
I think that I did not create it and I think that we were timing-wise we were lucky because we are in a large city. So first of all, you build in a large metropolis, close to a large metropolis, because the very big city, need to have a plan for the future. And the plan that big illuminated...
cities have for the future is to become AI cities, like real AI cities. So we have a vision that is complementary and aligned with the vision that the government has.
So it is aligned because they want to have technology, they want to bring AI products to the society, to the people. They want to have facial recognition everywhere. They want to have smart signals. They want to have all what AI brings.
Where is infrastructure? We have it. So that's a win-win. And therefore I understand that this is the step ahead to be aligned with the community but also with the executive power. And they're not doing anything more than giving us permits, if we do it right. But it's aligned with their vision of the future.
Carrie Charles (22:44.386)
Yes.
Carrie Charles (22:55.891)
What types of companies or partners are you hoping to attract and how could they get involved in Rio AI City?
Alessandro Lombardi (23:06.709)
You, since I mentioned earlier, for this size of project, you're really looking at BTS. Latin America is a co-location market. So US companies, come here, they buy, do you have it? Okay, I buy it. They don't really care about becoming part of the project, like a BitSuite or a Powerland dealer. You see very few in Latin America. People like to do co-location.
So this kind of project, because of its size, is a true BTS.
Therefore, you want to have large partners. And the way that we think of the technology is more similar to the way that the US thinks. Of course, there are other places in the world where AI is being built, but the typical partner is... We are thinking on an infrastructure of the Americas. Let's call it like this way, Americas with an S, so plural. South and north.
Carrie Charles (24:09.325)
Alessandro, this has really been fascinating. I've learned a lot. How can we learn more about Alaya data centers and your project?
Alessandro Lombardi (24:20.725)
I think the, I insist on the humanization of the infrastructure because anytime we see a data centers, they are not, I mean they are beautiful because they are big, huge. Wow, how big is that? But not how beautiful is that? You rarely hear it. So, ELEA is a way of, I understand of seeing infrastructure which is connected to the people.
That's the differentiator. So it is green, it is socially responsible, it is community-based, helps foster the local environment and brings at the very end value to the people, not only to the shareholders.
Carrie Charles (25:05.473)
What is your website?
Alessandro Lombardi (25:07.721)
My best.
Carrie Charles (25:08.609)
Your website? Wait, let me ask, let me ask that again. Hold on one second. Cut that. I'm gonna ask it one more time. in so three, two, one. So Alessandro, what is, no? get it. Yeah. Yeah. No, look at it. Yeah. And you don't have to say www. You could just say your website without that piece. Okay.
Alessandro Lombardi (25:10.517)
www.
Alessandro Lombardi (25:21.075)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Wait. I want to make sure I'm not making it wrong.
Carrie Charles (25:38.273)
So Alessandro, what is your website and where can we just find out more information?
Alessandro Lombardi (25:44.031)
www.eliadatacentres.com and you can find us on LinkedIn, on YouTube, on Instagram, we are everywhere with our real ICT.
Carrie Charles (25:53.622)
Okay, and just so you know, if you are listening to this, you spell it E-L-E-A data centers, right? I got it. I appreciate you coming on the show, Alessandro. This has just been fascinating and I cannot wait to see you at Data Cloud in September.
Alessandro Lombardi (26:01.095)
Exactly.
Alessandro Lombardi (26:09.801)
Yes, me too. See you there.
Carrie Charles (26:12.545)
Thank you so much. See you there.
Alessandro Lombardi (26:15.401)
Thank you.